because you have offered enormous conversations that have benefitted an understanding of what it means to be human in our time, that you have done. you have introduced with a fierceness and a passion, ideas that need tobe confronted. and that you have found a way to do it, you know w a great sense of humor and a sense of never losing what makes you so unique sense of humor as well as a sense of outrage. so we have hear at public television in this country, we owe you a lot including this documentary which i think is a very,very important. because everybody knows there's something wrong. and not enough people are committed to change. >> well, i appreciate that. i am trying tos we are well whether that is a precocious and premature eulogy or what. >> rose: i don't do-- dow eulogies, i don't. >> as we were talking i was thinking, as we were talking about having that wuflt conversation.

i actually, was thinking back to those two families and wondering what they would think struggling out in milwaukee about what you and i just talked about. and i think it's that tether to reality that keeps journalists from letting power and celebrity and notoriety corrupt them. >> rose: it has been my experience in life that all sophistication in the world and all of the pleasures in the world and all of the acquisitions in the world do not give you any more ability to understand humanity than those two people or whatever their flaws might be, you know, or a single mother which you and i talked about some 20 years ago or more. >> the fundamental conclusion i've reached after 79 years and a lot of work is that life is a lottery. i don't buy this argument that people are self-made. our opportunities are presented to us. how we resolve them, how we exploit them, respond to

them are the result of education and circumstances and reading and dna. dna. but i do think life is a lottery. and it seems to me a just society takes that into consideration and says that for people without didn't win the lottery, they should not be cast off on a desert island and resigned to hell. i believe that because life say ttery and we don't choose our success or our failure, we have an obligation to each other as members of the same species to try to create a life, create a society where lottery is determinate but it is not decisive in the quality of that life. and that every, you know, what i discovered, charlie, is i haven't met a parent-- i haven't met a wealthy parent, i haven't met a poor parent without doesn't want for their children, his or her child, the very same things that the wealthiest parents wants.

and it's been lottery more important than anything else that's determined who gets what in this society. and that a society that wants justice and fairness has to work to balance the unintended consequences of the lottery. >> rose: i totally agree with at. i would add this caveat. that is absolutely true. ed lottery is crucial. but human will is a factor in a range of things that we do. >> watch the documentary and will you see people without will themselves to work hard for a good life. >> rose: it's not-- my argument would be not about them at all. my argue would be that in fact my argument be that in fact human will is not enough and often not enough. and there is a perfect example of that. you know, and for everybody to insument people who work hard by saying they would be in a different place if they worked harder is an insult to them, an insult to common sense, an insult to you and i. on the other hand i do believe that there is something about the human spirit that enables within this large playing field

some people to be here. i think it has to do withate leting performance and lots of other things too. i do believe that. >> and the newmans and the stanleys were amply endowed with that will and with that spirit. >> rose: exactly. >> and they invested it in hart work. >> rose: and the system wore them down. but did not-- in the end which is remarkable and says something about the quality of humanity and human beings, notwithstanding everything that they have had to go through, notwithstanding insult to their own humanity, they're people who have a belief, their values were right. >> and they had not said hi the wrong values. >> they still believe that but they question today. and they haven't given up but they have paid a price that you and i haven't paid. >> rose: sluicely. >> for the adversity of lottery. >> coy not any more. let me just recommend two

too american families, it airs on tuesday, july 9th that is tomorrow night. at 10 p.m. on front line. bill moyers in a remarkable documentary that comes from a man who has given us much in understanding our country and understanding the power of individuals. and in this case, the story of two remarkable families, two american families is 9 title. frontline is the program. bill moyers is the correspondent, july 9th, tuesday at 10 p.m. is the time. thank you for joining us. thank you. >> thank you, charlie, always good to see you. >> rose: good night.

>> funding for charlie rose has been provided by its coca-cola company, supporting this program since 2002. >> an american express. a decisional funding provided by these funders. >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

tavis: it has taken a backseat to the bloodshed in cairo. here to discuss john kerry's role as a piece worker is tohael oren, the ambassador the u.s.. the show is good to be here. your: talk to me about thoughts, the chaos in egypt. >> we have had peace with egypt for close to 35 years.

it is essential for israel and egypt's security. for stability throughout the entire region. we and israel certainly have been interested in peace, stability, and interest. we will not get involved and how the egyptians should run we want security and peace to be stored there. crucial for us and for the region. >> he was democratically elected, and when a significant number of people did not like the direction they're going, the and, it moves the

country in a direction that the military doesn't like. to get intot going change,e of how they but israel has an interesting. we have long said and then proud of the fact that we are the only democracy in the middle east. we would be happier and prouder democracy in the middle east. tavis: does this mean egypt is heading in that direction? >> we are very proud of being that democracy and we want to be surrounded by democratic nations.

historically, democracies don't get into conflict with one another. tavis: what does concern you about this crisis in egypt. >> of the nature of the peace agreement between us and the egyptians. it has been a cornerstone for more than three decades. i know we are going to talk about that in a bid. it serves as the first grade peace agreement between israel and a major arab neighbor. preservingning and that peace is a paramount concern and of paramount israeli interests. -- tavis: how

tenuous is that agreement. >> even as recently as last november, fighting through the terrorists, egypt played a even during role morsi. we expect egypt to play that positive role. about some are concerned the destabilization of the entire region. you have concerns about that? prettyhe region is unstable right now. it has taken the lives of 100,000 syrians. that is a high degree of

instability, even by middle eastern standards. israel is a strong country, we can defend ourselves, but we wish for the people that live around us to enjoy the same freedoms. and for their children to have the same opportunities that might children have. does this crisis put the peace process on the back burner? >> we are certainly and diminished in our commitment to achieve peace with our neighbors. we are working in order to reanimate the peace negotiations between israel and the leaders of the palestinian authority. without preconditions anywhere. the prime minister says he is willing to meet.

they're willing to meet with them today. for two tuesday's people, a jewish state of israel living side by side with the palestinian state. tavis: what do you say to jews in this country, speaking of preconditions, that believe the preconditions for a two-state solution has to be the issue of settlement and israel needs to approach this problem a bit differently? >> we understand the settlement issue is a course of frustration, it is one of many issues that are controversial. we recognize the palestinian people as a people and out with the right of self-determination. no palestinian state will ever say to states for two people. they don't recognize the jewish people and out with that same

right. we don't expect the palestinians to give us the recognition of fraud, but it will be part of the negotiation. we understand that we will address the settlement issue within the broad context of borders, territory, and security wants to direct negotiations began. that is our position, but also the position of president obama. of folks think that president obama put this on the back burner, there is that phrase again, after an initial effort in the first term. we recall george mitchell in the first administration, and nothing happened with that. , not a lotpped aside happened after that. reasons,ver reason or john kerry has jumped in and to try to make something happen

here. how do you grade the obama administration about the seriousness between these talks? think they are totally committed for the search. thereatly appreciate president goes the effort, secretary of state hillary clinton, and we appreciate all their efforts and we view them as partners in the search for historic peace. during the first term, the administration tried a certain way to get the peace. we froze settlement construction for 10 months. hillary clinton called it unprecedented and it was to give the palestinians back to the negotiating table. they did not avail themselves of that opportunity. since then, they have not been able to return to the negotiating table.

the secretary kerry has very intensely fought to get them back to the table. all the core issues, these are tough tory easy. we believe we can address all of those issues and reach a creative solution. no diminishing on the part of the administration. has beentary of state very committed. tavis: let me ask if they're the right people at the table. you can only make peace between enemies. have the right participants. netanyahu has made the

official policy the to-state solution. positionis official and remains publicly committed to it. committed to moving swiftly toward that solution. abbas, we hopet for that. this is in the fall several years ago. are my partner for peace. basedan fulfill his role on two states for two peoples. tavis: i had the honor to talk to you a number of times every year tenure, the israeli ambassador to the west. a little birdie told me later

this year that you're stepping aside from this position. thank you for the access you have given us to you over your tenure at all the best in the coming months and years. >> this has been a great privilege and honor of my life. tavis: good to have you on, ambassador. up next, a fascinating story about the sugar hill gang and their story. tavis: it's a lesson that too many musicians have learned the hard way. one-sided contracts have rendered accomplishments completely moot. the group formally known as sugar hill gang found that out and they don't have the right to call themselves by the name they made famous, wonder mike and master hill, their first hit

"rapper's delight" open the door for the mainstream success of wrath. also -- rap. also, big bank hank, it is the subject of a powerful new documentary called "i want my name back." we will look at a clip from this film and how the managers that their money. >> a 79-98, a corvette stingray. i believe the ferrari was a 77. the writ of the corvette and his mother bought him an slc as a graduation gift. the money is being spent by them, but the artists didn't have anything. the cars got repossessed.

>> i was sleeping on this lady's .ouch, tavis: why is this a story told over and over again? there are so many groups this has happened to end it seems that for so many of these people, the lesson is never learned. because it is so engaging. all this glamour is thrown at you, let's take you to dinner. all this is happening at one time, smoke and mirrors designed to keep you from thinking about the business aspect of it. the music business. a lot of times, you don't get the business aspects first. tavis: how do you learn that? >> you don't.

about thend excited opportunity to be involved with the process. i wasn'ton to florida, really looking into the business side of it. you, isame question for am curious what your sense is, given that this happened, why has that happened to the sugar hill gang? >> each artist has a disposition, a certain character. your looking for a little love. we like the applause, we like the cheyenne. shine. but it is not enough.

people that are artists, they want their art to get out. once is appreciated, it seems to unfortunately be enough. but you have to take care of your business in this around yourself with good counsel. tavis: i wonder, as you look ba on it, if there was something that you could have done differently, that is pretty obvious, but the question is whether or not at that time you even knew better to have made different decisions. going back in my mind a long time about that situation. the one thing that i could have done was then a little bit more patient. i was so anxious. we had already recorded. the track is done, let's get it out. i should have been more patient.

happen fromings to the back end of it. from all all this love over the world. i've always wanted to do this ever since i saw a hard day's night when i was a little kid. i have got to do that for a living. that is not enough. >> success doesn't mean they have made it. not the end of the road. you can be taken advantage of. tavis: what ways were you taken advantage of? the documentary explores this, but give us a sense. >> merchandising. they were using our likeness.

we were not explained the death of publishing. it has gone on to get to the point now where we were watching, and i watched from afar. they performed over the world, actually saying that we were trying to raise my legacy from the world. the guy that created the situation, the individual telling the world that he is master g. most insidious part of it all. toys,uld put out plush greeting cards, and balloons. you hear the music and movies. but to go out and commit identity fraud, saying that someone else is master g. who does that?

that is beyond ridiculous. tavis: what do you make of the impact you had on the genre? if there is a song that has been sampled and sampled at sample. never get used to it because we both have our heroes. position whereat people come after the show or even in the street, i first bought that record. it means so much to me. away from the scene, i am the brother or the sun or the boy friend. we never get tired of the genuine love of the families.

>> it is all good. >> i am really a private person so that is kind of crazy that as private as i am, exposed individuals, to have people treat us like that, it is a natural for me. of thewhat do you make rap game today? can sugar hill get off of the crowd today? >> it would be tough. we were the first rap stars. there is a lot of competition and a lot of stuff you have to navigate through. we could still do it because i have faith and mike and myself. tavis: in this environment? from the lyrical standpoint? wise,e set up, age demographics, yes. the reason why is because

together, we are phenomenal. 95% of those songs, we wrote most of those together. those are reflection of who we were and what we felt was going on at the time. i believe that we would still do it. >> we would never come from a misogynist to point of view or advocate violence. their goal your sales. that's what i'm asking -- >> people want to have a good time. if it sounds good and feels good. live, socialore to relevance. >> i think that we would segway because we sound good and